The Problem With Initiative
Fifth Edition Dungeons & Dragons..
Fucked in some ways, revolutionary in others. It is simultaneously the reason I barreled serendipitously into the RPG hobby and the bane of my OSR craving existence. It's often an absolute chore gathering the type of crowd that is willing and able to dedicate themselves to an OSR system.
As a result, I'm left dismantling the edition that garners the least resistance. With enough tinkering, I can work it into the kind of game that I can really dig into. All of this preamble is meant to put this into proper context. I wish to break down the concept of initiative, and how it's applied in 5e.
Anytime you are going to be picky, pedantic little shit, as I am wont to do, you need to get definitions out of the way.
As we all know, initiative is little more than the method by which we determine turn order. This is the most basic, stripped down definition. Taking this further, a turn is an opportunity in which a creature may do something within a round, which is only six seconds.
You roll initiative order at the beginning of combat, and for the remainder of the combat, this is the order you go in through every round. You declare your action on your turn, then roll and see how well you do. In theory, the understanding is that everything that happens in a round is within the same 6 seconds.
Already, the cracks should be visible here IF you care about combat being a flowing, narrative or immersive experience. If you don't see it, let me spell it out.
The initiative has been tracked, the PCs face the monsters, and the first actions transpire. Bows and crossbows out, the highest rolling PCs (20, 18, 16) release a volley of missiles toward the enemy. The Cleric, who, again, is probably just going to shoot someone at this point, is aiming down sights... Because that's what you do before you shoot.
Suddenly, an Orc sprints forward (15) and throws a javelin straight into the Sorcerer's gut. The grievous wound knocks the Sorcerer unconscious. Here's the problem: the Cleric, by conventional D&D rules, is perfectly able to drop their weapon, grab their holy symbol, run across the battlefield, and pray to the gods to heal the wounds of the Sorcerer, all as a reaction to something that happened less than a second ago, AND within a six second time window.
Obviously, there's a narrative disconnect here.
This isn't quite as bad as the notion that if multiple PCs are targeting the same creature with projectiles, that the moment a creature falls, the next player can say "oh, I'll target the next monster instead." So yet again, a mere split second after an ally drops an opponent, the PC is able to recognize they're dying, change targets, aim, and fire.
These are the kinds of situations that commonly crop up in 5e D&D, and the bizarreness of it is rarely discussed. We can all agree that these are abstractions that many players are more than willing to handwave. It's not the only potential issue, though.
Quite simply, playing this way often takes much longer. Certainly we have all seen those players who "check out" when their turn is over, only to try to get a grasp when they've come back. Even if they've paid attention, playing in this manner creates a chesslike quality that means engaged players are constantly reacting to the ever changing enemy positions within the rounds, and when their turn comes up, they're stuck trying to finish calculating these new variables into the most satisfying conclusion.
For people who enjoy strategy RPGs, (like me admittedly), this can be a godsend. But sweet holy fuck does this take even more time. Combat in 5e is already rather lengthy, why prolong the misery of everyone else who just wants to get to the action?
The fix is simple. Stop letting them call actions on their turns.
Fucked in some ways, revolutionary in others. It is simultaneously the reason I barreled serendipitously into the RPG hobby and the bane of my OSR craving existence. It's often an absolute chore gathering the type of crowd that is willing and able to dedicate themselves to an OSR system.
As a result, I'm left dismantling the edition that garners the least resistance. With enough tinkering, I can work it into the kind of game that I can really dig into. All of this preamble is meant to put this into proper context. I wish to break down the concept of initiative, and how it's applied in 5e.
Anytime you are going to be picky, pedantic little shit, as I am wont to do, you need to get definitions out of the way.
As we all know, initiative is little more than the method by which we determine turn order. This is the most basic, stripped down definition. Taking this further, a turn is an opportunity in which a creature may do something within a round, which is only six seconds.
You roll initiative order at the beginning of combat, and for the remainder of the combat, this is the order you go in through every round. You declare your action on your turn, then roll and see how well you do. In theory, the understanding is that everything that happens in a round is within the same 6 seconds.
Already, the cracks should be visible here IF you care about combat being a flowing, narrative or immersive experience. If you don't see it, let me spell it out.
The initiative has been tracked, the PCs face the monsters, and the first actions transpire. Bows and crossbows out, the highest rolling PCs (20, 18, 16) release a volley of missiles toward the enemy. The Cleric, who, again, is probably just going to shoot someone at this point, is aiming down sights... Because that's what you do before you shoot.
Suddenly, an Orc sprints forward (15) and throws a javelin straight into the Sorcerer's gut. The grievous wound knocks the Sorcerer unconscious. Here's the problem: the Cleric, by conventional D&D rules, is perfectly able to drop their weapon, grab their holy symbol, run across the battlefield, and pray to the gods to heal the wounds of the Sorcerer, all as a reaction to something that happened less than a second ago, AND within a six second time window.
Obviously, there's a narrative disconnect here.
This isn't quite as bad as the notion that if multiple PCs are targeting the same creature with projectiles, that the moment a creature falls, the next player can say "oh, I'll target the next monster instead." So yet again, a mere split second after an ally drops an opponent, the PC is able to recognize they're dying, change targets, aim, and fire.
These are the kinds of situations that commonly crop up in 5e D&D, and the bizarreness of it is rarely discussed. We can all agree that these are abstractions that many players are more than willing to handwave. It's not the only potential issue, though.
Quite simply, playing this way often takes much longer. Certainly we have all seen those players who "check out" when their turn is over, only to try to get a grasp when they've come back. Even if they've paid attention, playing in this manner creates a chesslike quality that means engaged players are constantly reacting to the ever changing enemy positions within the rounds, and when their turn comes up, they're stuck trying to finish calculating these new variables into the most satisfying conclusion.
For people who enjoy strategy RPGs, (like me admittedly), this can be a godsend. But sweet holy fuck does this take even more time. Combat in 5e is already rather lengthy, why prolong the misery of everyone else who just wants to get to the action?
The fix is simple. Stop letting them call actions on their turns.
AD&D proposed a very simple way to do this. At the beginning of EVERY round, all participants roll a d10, adding their speed modifier, and trying to roll as low as possible. The speed modifier was dependent upon what your character would be doing, which means that more lengthy actions are likely to occur late in the combat. This served many, many wonderful purposes.
First, it required that the players decide what their characters were going to do at the beginning of the round and commit to it. Players lock in the type of action that's being committed, which results in less stuttering when people take time to rethink their action when it's their turn.
Secondly, it gave decisions more weight. The casters may choose to use a spell with a very low casting time so that they can prevent someone from disrupting their cast or landing a killing blow on an ally. Fighters may use a lighter weapon to get a quick stab in on an enemy that may retreat, or to be the one doing the interrupting.
Thirdly, it made things seem a lot less disjointed. It seems less the case that these PCs are omniscient SWAT teams acting in perfect harmony and more the case that they're in a brutal fight for survival, and it's hard to know exactly what's going on with everyone else because you've got your own business to attend to.
Mike Mearls knew this about 5e, and he developed his own initiative system for it that seemed heavily based on what works from AD&D's initiative. https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/greyhawk-initiative
However, there's a glaring difference: he breaks them up into broad categories rather than having hard coded modifiers that remove some of the randomness and allow for a bit more complexity.
Mearls' fix may not be the approach I'm after, but it's a start. It works in the spirit of addressing these dilemmas, while keeping things incredibly simple for players to pick up. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with 5e initiative, but I know this: I don't like the way it's written. Let me know what you think.
Declaring actions is a good way to get everyone to commit to what they initially want to do. Spells can have certain casting times, weapons can have varying speeds, other actions may have differing modifiers - these can be factored into the initiative roll or, by having the action be completed (like a spell) on a certain segment, that is, a later part of the round. In 1e, the 1 minute round was split into six 10 second segments - this was useful bc every spell had a segment-based casting time & weapon speed played a part (later to be used in the initiative roll in 2e). Technically speaking, a round COULD go into "overtime" segments if things got pushed back OR, if the DM ruled, would spill over into the next round, OR the DM decided that the action couldn't take place at all bc there were no further segments left.
ReplyDeleteGetting players to commit before rolling is good - it gets them thinking pro-actively rather than being reflexive. However, rather than forcing players to commit to the action they declared at the beginning of the round in every circumstance, adding a segment penalty or a saving throw of sorts to avoid such a penalty could be put into play. Maybe PCs of certain levels/races/classes would be partially or fully exempt from these penalties.
Now, these sorts of rules for initiative can get complicated. It depends on what the goals for the particular campaign are. In some, group initiative works. In others, very granular initiative may be better.
You may find the "running initiative" used in Hackmaster Basic to be of interest. There are no rounds - it's a continuous order of initiative based on the weapon/spell/action time cost of what each N/PC plans on doing next.
Thanks for the recommendation! I've been told to check out Hackmaster a few times, but it's always said with a warning.. that it's a deep dive.
DeleteI run my games (not 5e) with what I call the 3 Ms system: Missiles, Movement, Melee. Instead of each player or NPC taking all their actions in turn, the round is broken down into those three phases and all actions each entity takes within a given phase are considered to take place simultaneously unless there is a specific conflict where action order is important (opposed speed checks to see who reaches a point in space first, weapon length rules determining the order melee weapons strike in, dexterity scores compared for missile fire, etc). With these rules I never get the immersion destroying situation of the fighter who rolled 2 higher on initiative being able to close with an enemy with a loaded crossbow before said foe could shoot it.
ReplyDeleteThis is the way in B/X. Missile, Spells, Melee. RAW, all movement is first, but it does work better if characters have to wait until their phase to move. Missiles and Spells can move only 5' before their attack -- no kiting.
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